'James, light blue top, on right; Oliver, dark blue top on left, " is what I scribble at the top of my notebook under the table. This comes just after James – or is it Oliver? – has been talking about how annoying it is to be treated as one tall, floppy-haired, 25-year-old unit, rather than as individuals. As Fred and George Weasley, respectively, Ron Weasley's mischievous older twin brothers in the Harry Potter films, James and Oliver Phelps must be one of the most famous sets of twins in the world.
They were 14 when they auditioned for the role in an open casting session a friend had heard about, having no acting experience other than a bit of drama at school in Sutton Coldfield, where they grew up and where they now share a flat. "We're not from that environment, nobody we knew was in the entertainment industry, " says James. (Their father set up a chauffeur business; their mother worked in local government.) They seem to have fallen into acting by accident, rather than it being a burning passion. "I felt like [I wasn't a proper actor] for about three or four years, and then when I was about 17, I really started to take it seriously, " says James, who still occasionally takes acting lessons. "I'm very aware that I'm lucky to call it my job."
Though quick to express their gratitude for their parts in the films – "It has been the most incredible experience and has changed our lives, " says Oliver – they admit that going on set as "the twins" felt like a step backwards. They had spent the last few years at secondary school carefully carving out their own identities, separated for the first time and making their own friends; now they were known as the twins again, this time on a global scale. For one thing, they had to look the same, something they had always fought against.
"I did cringe a bit, " says Oliver. "In certain bits, they are dressed differently, and that was very much us saying they wouldn't always dress the same. But the argument was made to us that Fred and George dressed the same to trick people, so it made sense." James and Oliver admit to occasionally pretending to be each other when they were much younger, but not as much as another set of twins at their school, on whom they based the Weasleys. "We were relatively good, " says Oliver, laughing, "but these boys would swap lessons – one was good at cricket, the other was good at science. We never did that."
Even when it came to casting them, there seems to have been a temptation to see them as one unit. At the first read-through of the script on set, James and Oliver still didn't know which Weasley they would be. "The casting director said, 'You're kidding, right?', " says Oliver. "She went over to speak to Chris Columbus [the director] and JK Rowling. I like to think there was a lengthy discussion about who was who, but she came back and said: 'James, you're Fred; Oliver you're George.'"
"I suppose I liked Fred because he appeared first, " says James.
"It's that old rivalry thing, " says Oliver, with a smile. "Who has the most lines, who can be on screen the longest. There was that competitiveness between us. We will compete over anything and everything."
If you don't know what happens to the Weasley twins, look away now – but most fans will already know that one of them dies in Rowling's final book in the series, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. "It was horrible, " says the one whose character doesn't die, of filming the scenes in the forthcoming second instalment of the final film. "I was trying to get myself into this emotional state. You had to put yourself in character, and seeing your brother lying there, pale, was quite hard. I think we did about four takes." It's impossible to say, of course, but does he think it would have been the same if he hadn't had to deal with the pretend death of his real brother? "Maybe, because you still have to put yourself in that emotional state, but it probably added to it, the fact he is my brother." Both are dreading what their mother will make of it.
Were James and Oliver Phelps very conscious that they were twins as children? Not especially, they say. Their parents would dress them in different clothes, mainly to tell them apart, but also because the family were involved in the Twins & Multiple Births Association, which has always stressed encouraging children's individuality. "If anyone referred to us as 'the twins', we would ignore them, " says James. "I know people don't mean to be insulting, and I know that some twins enjoy being seen as twins, but we're at the other end of the scale."
Oliver, older by 13 minutes, regards himself as the big brother. "I'm a lot more assertive, probably. James is more chilled out." They are keen to stress their differences: they support different football teams; Oliver is tidier; James seems a little quieter. It's "absolutely rubbish" that they can tell what the other is thinking, says Oliver, but for their 21st birthday they each bought the other the same birthday card. If they ever buy the same clothes by accident, the one who bought it last has to take it back to the shop.
The trick now for the Phelps twins is to stop being the Phelps twins and, after 10 years of the Harry Potter safety net, start to forge their own careers. Their highest-profile role outside of the Potter films has been as Weasley-esque troublesome twins in an episode of the television series Kingdom. Is there a danger that they will be typecast as a twosome? They admit it is something they have to battle against. They still make appearances at promotional and charity events as twins, and seem to spend much more time together than most 25-year-old siblings. "We want to continue acting but not necessarily together, " says James. "We've had a few meetings with casting agents in the States but there is a perception that we come as two. I said I want to do individual stuff and one guy just said 'Oh no, I don't see that happening'. I shut off as soon as he said that, I wasn't interested."
Their agent knows not to put them up for the same part. "We used to go to the same auditions but it didn't make sense, " says Oliver. His brother laughs: "The casting director would be confused and say 'I've already seen you.' We learned pretty early on not to go to the same thing."
What if one finds huge success while the other's career doesn't quite work out? Does that worry them? "Not particularly, " says Oliver. "We've always said we're both actors, so obviously we're competing against each other in one way but we're also brothers so we want the other to do just as well."
"Family means more than the job, " says James. "If we were both successful, that would be fantastic, but we know that throughout our careers, we would probably overtake each other every so often, so I think you just have to ride the highs and the lows. If he was ahead of me, or I was ahead of him, it would push us even more. He would probably take [being considered less successful] easier than I would, although I don't mean that I would begrudge him. Although I might find it hard, " he says with a smile, "if people ask me if I'm Oliver Phelps."
Life after Harry Potter